Introduction
At Genesis and Genetics, we have examined Y-chromosome genomes searching for Noah and his three sons, Ham, Japheth, and Shem. They were easy to find. According to our analysis, if you have the rs17306671 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide A you are from Shem. If you have the rs9786139 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide A you are from Ham. If you have the rs3900 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide G you are from Japheth. If you are a woman, you will have to check your father’s y-chromosome. Women don’t have the y-chromosome.
Background
Here is a bit of background: Y-chromosome DNA is exclusively found in males; it is inherited from one’s father. The Y-chromosome has approximately 60 million base pairs, each of which is subject to mutations. Mutations develop in the Y-chromosome, typically at the rate of 2 mutations per generation. This is based on a mutation rate of 1.0*10^-9 mutations /nucleotide/year (Reference 1) and 30 years per generation. These mutations allow us to track ancestry. If one man populated all the earth, all males would have his Y-chromosome, and if this man had two sons, one would expect that roughly half of the world would have one son’s mutations and the other half would have the other son’s mutations. Furthermore, if our original ancestor had 10 grandsons, one would expect that each grandson would have mutations that would each exist in approximately 10 percent of the male population. Successive generations would continue to generate new mutations that would form a human family tree, known as a phylogenetic tree to geneticists.
Easy to follow logic
The following presents the easy-to-follow logic and analysis which anyone can repeat. Our findings are consistent with the Bible and modern science raw data.
In our research, we used the above principles in tracking our most ancient ancestors. We made no assumptions and shelved our preconceived ideas. We wanted to see where the data led us. Appendix A shows the precise method we used to extract the data. Our strategy was simple; we gathered the Y-chromosome mutations, which are seen in more than 5 percent of human males, and entered them into a spreadsheet. We looked for patterns and color-coded the resulting groups. Please consider doing one Y-chromosome example yourself using Appendix A as a guide, or if you have your Y-chromosome data, you can trace it back to your most ancient ancestor/ancestors. You will see the ancient ancestor to whom you are related.
Sources
The data used in this research came from the 1000 genomes project (Reference 2) and retrieved using the Ensembl browser (Reference 3). The data appeared to be correct with no errors. No data was eliminated due to suspect errors, and no data was “cherry-picked” to suit any preconceived ideas. Our thanks to the great effort of those who did the sequencing and publishing of the raw data. We also greatly appreciate that it was made available to the public.
We started by taking 57 Y-genomes of diverse people (Americas, East Asia, Europe, South Asia, and Africa). Next, we gathered mutations that were in at least 5 percent of the world’s male population. The technical term for this is those with a Mean Allele Frequency (MAF) greater than or equal to 0.05 (5 percent). These mutations are the most interesting; any smaller MAF mutation is a subset of those greater than 5%.
Results
The spreadsheet below provides 57 rows (individual male humans) and 30 columns (mutations over 5 percent of the population). Each column element of the matrix was color-coded to show us whether the individual had the mutation or not. We noticed patterns beginning to form (you can CLICK HERE to see the EXCEL copy.)
Next, we switched columns and rows to form groups. The groups were obvious. We also took each group and moved the columns so that the columns for each group with the largest MAF were on the left. Now we can see a clear pattern in the figure below. We see that each individual fits into just one group and had no mutations in any other group. Also, we see that every individual in the group has the mutation with the greatest MAF; this is the mutation of the most ancient ancestor of that group. Here is what the spreadsheet looks like after grouping: Note: you can CLICK HERE to see the matrix in EXCEL.
Looking at the matrix above, we see that each group has one maximum MAF. The yellow is .38, the red is 52, and the green is .10. They add up to 100 percent.
Consistent with the Bible
Now that we have shown that our most ancient ancestor had three sons, we can state that this finding is consistent with the Bible. The three groups are consistent with the three sons of Noah: Ham, Shem, and Japheth. The Bible states that, generally, those from Ham went south to Africa and southern Asia, those from Japheth went north to northern Europe and northern Asia, and those from Shem stayed in the Caucuses, the Near East, and North Africa. Therefore, one could easily conclude that Ham is the yellow group, Shem is the green group, and Japheth is the red group. Note: Noah’s Y-chromosome is also known since it would be that of the three sons with all mutations removed.
Bible in Genesis 10, the Table of Nations, states that all humanity came from these three sons:
Genesis 10:1 Now these are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth: and unto them were sons born after the flood.
Genesis 10:32 These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations, in their nations: and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.
Analysis
This means that roughly 1/3 of the earth’s male population came from each son, but, since Japheth had 7 sons, Ham had 4 sons, and Shem had 5 sons; therefore, the worldwide distribution should be closer to the following:
Patriarch Number of sons % Projected World Population Observation
Japheth 7 sons 43.75 52
Ham 4 sons 25 38
Shem 5 sons 31.25 10
The chart above shows that both the Ham and Japheth results were higher than expected, and Shem was lower than expected. However, this can be explained in at least two ways:
(1) The Ham and Japheth offspring are in the world’s heavily populated areas, namely South and East Asia.
(2) The Thousand Genomes Project did not provide representatives of the Near East, the Mid-East, or Northern Africa, all of which would increase the Shem percentage, thereby decreasing Ham and Japheth’s percentages.
The above two issues are not meant as criticism but offered as an explanation.
Bible, secular history, and genetic diversity
Our findings are consistent with the Bible, secular ancient history, and genetic diversity:
- The Bible documents Noah and his family to be the only ones spared from the deluge which flooded the entire earth, and the earth was repopulated through Noah’s three sons.
- The historical period began when the Sumerians began writing cuneiform tablets. These early writings documented the kings before and after the flood. Also, the Sumerian legends are consistent with the world being populated by the three sons on the Ark.
- According to the Bible and Sumerian history, all humanity came from one family. As they migrated throughout the world, the genetic diversity would be lost from those who separated from the core population; therefore, the most genetic diversity should be where Noah’s family settled, the Near East. Those who migrated to the Americas, Australia, and southern Africa lost some genetic diversity. We can consider two levels of observing genetic diversity, first, what we see and, second, what DNA tells us. We can easily see eye color, skin color, and hair color. Looking at a globe, it is apparent that those with the most visual diversity meet in the Near East, the place of disembarkation from Noah’s Ark. From a DNA standpoint, one can look at the diversity of haplogroups, both Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial. The extremities are South Africa, Australia, and the Americas, which have only a few haplogroups. The location with the most haplogroups is, again, in the Near East.
Summary
(1) From a Y-chromosome perspective, it appears that all humanity came from three male humans.
(2) Item (1) is not proof of the Biblical narrative concerning Noah’s three sons, but it is consistent with it. To prove it, one would have to sequence every human male ever born and analyze his genome. If anyone can trace an individual human Y Chromosome back to some basal mutation other than the three given, please let us know and comment below.
(3) We can now project Noah’s DNA; it is that of his three sons with no mutations.
(4) Our findings are consistent with the Bible, Sumerian history, and our current state of human diversity.
Future analysis It is now possible to know the Y-chromosome DNA of each of Noah’s grandchildren. This is in our job jar.
References:
2 https://www.internationalgenome.org/
3 https://useast.ensembl.org/index.html
Appendix A
If you would like to repeat this analysis or add to it, the following is the step-by-step procedure we used.
Let’s start by taking someone from, perhaps, Peru and find out to which group he belongs. Did he come from Shem, Ham, or Japheth?
(1) We open Ensembl (https://useast.ensembl.org/index.html ). Leave everything default and enter rs9786139 in the upper right-hand box—hit enter.
(2) You should get a new window with the following “rs9786139 (Human Variant).” Click on it. Notice that the MAF is .38.
(3) Click on the ICON that says, “population genetics.” Scroll down to find “AMR” and the subgroup “PEL.” Click on the “PEL.” You can see that 95 percent of this group has a “G,” and 5 percent of the population have an “A.” Next, go to the far right of the “PEL” row and click on “show.” Each of the rows of this screen is an actual human being. You will notice that most of this group has a “G,” but a few have an “A.”
(4) Looking at the population genetics of those from PEL, Peru, you can see that a few Peruvians are from Ham, but most are from someone else. You can find out who by entering the defining mutations for Shem and Japheth. If you enter all the mutations and analyze the same Peruvian, you will see all his mutations are in one group or another. If you look at rs3900, you will see that most Peruvians are from Japheth.
(5) continue entering the mutations one by one, and you will see that our Peruvian is only from one group and has no mutations from any other group. If you do a significant number of individuals, please sent them to us.
Thank you for your research which is absolutely fascinating. Do you know of any book which is a collection of photos of all people types from around the world because I would love to own such a publication? Thank you
I am not familiar with such a book, but it would be a great book. Maybe you should create such a book. I will buy one for sure. In the meantime, you can search on each country and get photos of the people.
Admin
Adam A, Eve mt A
Noah B, Nama mt B
Abraham DE, Sara mt L
Ismael E1b1a
Isaac DE
Jacob DE
Tribe of Judah E1b1b, mt N Leah
Tribe of Ephraim D, mt M Rachel
Japheth FGHIJKLMNO, mt N Leah
Ham PQR, mt N Leah
Africans (mt L, Sheba)
E1b1a Ismael
E1b1b Solomon
Asians (mt M, Rachel)
D Joseph Ephraim Manasseh (mt D Asenath)
E1b1b Europeans Judah Levi (mt N, Leah)
James,
I would like to know from where you got your information? I don’t think much of it is correct. Please give me a reference. It appears that it is based on the evolutionary model which defies common sense and the basic principles of genetics.
Admin
There’s a reason why this will never hit the mainstream science news headlines:
“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;” (2 Timothy 4:3)
Today’s scientists are so hellbent on the notion that humans evolved from apes, that the world is billions of years old, and that there was no Adam, Eve, Noah, Shem, Ham, Japheth, etc. Yet there’s clear evidence that all of those notions are wrong. One just has to look on the internet to find it. Even Greek mythology is more believable than evolution garbage, and some creationists have tied Greek gods to deified Biblical humans.
These scientists fail to realize that Sir Isaac Newton, perhaps the most influential scientist of all time, was a young-earth creationist, and, by insulting young-earth creationists nowadays, they are spitting on his grave.
I remember, in early (March-May?) 2017, watching a Christian sermon on TV promoting YEC (although I think it also promoted flat earth beliefs which I don’t agree with). I scoffed at it as nonsense, then, after reading a few (custom order now) Chick tracts on the topic later that year (November?), I was convinced and joined the club. I temporarily left in 2019 but returned late last year.
Glory to El and may He bless you.
This study will never be published in “mainstream science” because it’s wrong. Science does not just ignore information that can drastically change our understanding of the world without sound reasoning. If you were to present this “study” to any qualified Biologist, Biochemist, or Earth Scientist, they would laugh in your face. Let’s go over some reasons why:
1.) This entire study relies on the assumption that every human on earth is the descendant of one of three men only a few thousand years ago, which ignores the undeniable fact that evolution does exist and the mountain of evidence that comes with it. If this assumption were true, how does the bible explain the fossils we have found of human ancestors (Neanderthals, Homo Habilis, Homo Nadeli, and more) that are older than the bible itself?
2.) One part of this study claims, “Those from Ham went south to Africa and southern Asia, those from Japheth went north to northern Europe and northern Asia, and those from Shem stayed in the Caucuses, the Near East, and North Africa.” What about the Americas? This study doesn’t even touch on the millions of Native and Latin Americans and their genetic mutation, why is that? Here’s a hint: maybe it’s because it doesn’t fit into their model.
3.) If Ham, Shem, and Japheth were all sons of Noah, they would all be of the same ethnicity, so how come there are other ethnicities? If your answer is an adaptation to their environment, that means that you believe evolution exists, which means this study is wrong. And no, micro-evolution cannot exist without macro-evolution.
I also want to point out how ironic your comment and this study are. Websites like this one and “Answers in Genesis” have a strong anti-science + anti-establishment bias, yet when asked to prove the validity of Christianity they immediately jump to science. And yet the people who read this article fail to see that if the claims made here are true, scientists would be fighting over themselves to be the first ones to announce this discovery. The reason why no scientist is taking this study seriously is simply because the claims it makes are false.
Joseph, this doesn’t even touch on your beliefs in young Earth creationism. Yes, Sir Isaac Newton was a brilliant man, but he believed in young Earth creationism because he lived in the 17th century, a time when we didn’t have the technology to prove that the Earth isn’t 6000 years old. I would guarantee you that if he was still alive today and could see evidence of evolution, he wouldn’t hold onto that belief.
I think I reason why Shem’s descendants nowadays are so little compared to those of Ham and Japheth is because many races that sprung from him (Elamites, Assyrians, Edomites, Moabites, Ammonites, etc.) were enemies of Israel throughout Israel’s history to the point where Yahweh decided to eradicate their races, as stated in prophecies in the Bible’s prophetic books. With Yahweh’s prophecies becoming true, most of these races are currently extinct, with only Jews, lost Israelites, Arabs, and Assyrians remaining as descendants of Shem.
I also suspect that the Finns are from Shem, due to their Uralic heritage and origins independent of the Indo-Europeans (from Japheth). One person from Finland being in the “Shem” group in your table supports this.
Those races being scattered, emigrating around the world, and intermarrying with Caucasians fulfill Noah’s prophecy in Genesis 9:27.
Furthermore, in here (https://bit.ly/TableofNations), there is a map where Y-DNA haplogroups can be traced back to Noah’s three sons. In northern Europe, Scandinavia, and some (but not all) of Finland, there is a dominance of a haplogroup from Shem.
The source also suggests that Shem’s descendants were given the Proto-Elamite and Elamite languages, Ham’s descendants the Afro-Asiatic ones (also erroneously called “Semitic” as the descendants of Shem’s sons Aram, Arpachshad, and Asshur adopted them), and Japheth’s descendants obviously the Indo-European ones. And Proto-Elamite and its daughter languages are all currently extinct.
“Press F to ray respects for Shem”
Hello,
I chanced by this site and I find it interesting as I have often asked myself some questions, I may as well ask them here. Feom which of the sons of Noah did the Chinese descend? Are the Asians especially Chinese, Japanese and Koreans descended from one of the sons of Ham or Shem?
Secondly what did the ancient egyptians look like, because Hagar, we are told was Egyptian and out of her and Abraham; who was Shemite came forth the Ismaelites or Arabs. How much closer do the arabs resemble modern Chaldees?
This is all wrong because it is based on the theory that we all came from Adam and Eve. What does the Bible mean when it says that Noah was perfect in his generation. It means that he was of pure blood and had not mixed with the six day creation or the fallen angels. Why did God flood the earth. The Bible says that all kind after their kind was aboard Noah’s Ark meaning that the different ethnic races created on the six day were on Noah’s Ark. Ham, Shem, and Japheth’s ethnicity would not have changed. They were Caucasian period. The Bible is about a family which was and is God’s chosen people. The beast of the field was created Genesis 1:24 on the six day along with the ethnic races. God rested on the 7th, and on the 8th day or thereafter God created EthAdam which means blushing in the face, ruddy in the face, a specific man, and the lineage of which Christ would come. So, from the very beginning this whole article is dead wrong because it is assuming that we all came from these three. We did not.
Don’t know where you got your facts from but that info is not accurate nor in the bible. You should reread Genesis chapter 1 – 10.
No, he’s correct.
My goodness, Satan has completely blinded you.
You implication seems to be that white descended from Adam and that non-whites are non-human beasts of the field. If that is what you are implying, that is pure nonsense. The Bible says that in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile, and that a multitude of worshippers will follow Christ from every tribe and tongue and nation. Clearly if non-white races can be accepted into the kingdom of God, then they must also have been sinners descended from Adam’s fallen line and redeemed by Christ’s grace. Your comment also flies directly into the face of any scientific inquiry, as humans of all races are very obviously of the same species.
This blog has nothing to do with race. The point is that one can take any human male from anywhere on the earth and trace his lineage to one of three ancient ancestors. This is evidence that the Bible is correct in that all human men are related to three ancient ancestors. Please read it again and show where there is any implication that non-whites are non-human beasts. According to the Bible, there is only one race: the human race.
today everything is about race which has nothing to do with the “BLOODLINE” of christ thank you for this info very helpful for me on my dna journey
Technically the Asiatic people are Japhet because is have yellow skin like Japhet.
Part of yellow Asiatic population are in max 1/3 are semitic but not descent from one semitic sons, rather from his many descand, include the Israelites and other them semitic nations. Also Asiatic people are descent from Ham but not most them, most are mixed.
Hagar she are not the Hamites Egyptian but also semitic like Joseph the Egyptian (son of Jacob-Israel), the name Egyptian in Hagar who are also used Keturah is not from her tribe, but from her place born. Her father the king of Egypt are hebrew-semitic man therefore Abraham could speak to him in his language. Chaldees term is not only for tribes but also for teritorry.
Hello Genesis and Genetics
Trust this finds you well.
How refreshing to find your website with actual answers of value rather than the myriad opinions that are so easily disclosed online yet have little or no value; only adding more confusion on a pivotal subject. I have despaired at ever finding a response such as yours. Needless to say I found it both extremely helpful and fascinating.
National and ethnic identities from a Biblical and mtDNA / Y-DNA Haplogroup perspective is my interest and specialty. I would like to learn more on the Haplogroup angle. If you have the time, I would greatly appreciate your comments if you are able to read any of the entries on orion-gold dot com [articles such as: Noah; Japheth; Ham; Magog Tubal & Meshech].
Thank you and all the very best
How am I able to do this with my y dna results?
You must download your y-chromosome data and look to see what each of the three markers you have as follows:
According to our analysis, if you have the rs17306671 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide A you are from Shem. If you have the rs9786139 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide A you are from Ham. If you have the rs3900 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide G you are from Japheth. If you are a woman, you will have to check your father’s y-chromosome. Women don’t have the y-chromosome.
Whoever did your data should allow you to download your markers. If they didn’t give them to you call them and ask them about the three markers given above. They start with “rs.”
GHIJ are considered Semitic ydna haplogroups
G ydna is found throughout the middle-east.
H ydna is Elamite.There is an Elamo-Dravidian hypothesis set forth by linguist David McAlpin linking the languages of South India to the extinct language of Ancient Elam. There are lots of archeological artefacts /findings linking the Indus Valley to Iran/Elam and even Bahrain .
So H ydna is from Elam. It is not Hamitic. With all scientific evidences there is a very clear link between Elam and India.
J ydna is most definitely Semitic. J1 ydna is prevalent among Arabs and is most Ptobsbly from Ishmael the eldest son of Abraham. Over 80% of European Jews belong to the J ydna haplogroup, with most being of J2ydna. This shows the hand of God who has preserved his people’s DNA inspite of 2000 years of exile.
No matter how many try to find some way of relating R ydna to Shem- it always falls flat in face of DNA and archeological evidence in Europe. R1a and R1b have been found in ancient DNA samples in Europe which show a continuity with modern Europeans. Europeans are not Shemites. They are of Japeth. Bible clearly puts Europe the genealogy of Japheth and Science affirms it. Gomer – Ashkenazi is Germany. Madai is Medes. Meschesh refers to Moscow etc.
Sinim in Hebrew is refers to China. Sino -prefix is associated with China to this day. Bible records sinites as being descendants of Canaan.
The Bible does not care about skin colour nor does it divide the sons of Noah based on skin colour. Ham is the father of the dark-skinned subsaharan africans as well as the light skinned Canaanites and North Africans. The Philistines came from Mizraim(Egypt)son of Ham. They were in all probability light skinned and Bible records them as coming from Ham.
Gen 10 :13-14 “Egypt fathered Ludim, Anamim, Lehabim, Naphtuhim, Pathrusim, Casluhim (from whom the Philistines came), and Caphtorim” (Gen 10:13-14). Modern Archeology puts the Philistines as coming Southern Europe/Crete -this confirms the biblical narrative.
“Europeans are not Shemites. They are of Japeth. Bull****” Japhet are yellow skin, Asiatic nations like Chinese people, yes orginal European people are Japhet like Grece, but most them from last from last 2500 years-for example most members of Jewish elite like Judah tribe Davidic clan, Benjamin, sons of Joseph, are not J-Ydna, but is are R1b, R1a, the J-dna is Cohanim clan, the E1b are also levites. Technicly 80% ethnic Jews from Europe are definitly not J-dna clan because most of ethnic Jewish people official is not Jewish (christian, atheist, European people etc.).- only small grup of publicly Jewish are tested for his dna.
Madai is Medes and is possible from one son of Abraham and Keturah (his 2 wife after Sarah).
The Germans/Nordic are orginal descent from Teutons from Assyrians-who descent from Dedan son of Jokshan son of Abraham and Keturah- also semitic hebrew nation.
Orginalls the Japhet are yellow-bronze skin people, but the Semites are ginger hair and ruddy skin people, most of them people are actuals named European, but
the science tells in the prehistory and ancient first Euopeans are yellow-bronze skin like biblical Japhet.
Actual only part (but not most of Grece, actual the Grece are mix of Semitic and Japhetic tribes) of Grece and Finish people are small members orginal Japhet tribe in Europe, the Asiatic are possible mix of Japhet (yellow skin), Ham (Black eye) and small percent of Semitic people (specially in Japan, Chine, Malaysia).
The Bible telling: yellow is for Japhet (Yellow Asia, and orginally-but not today- North Europe+ Grecce), Red-bronze-white people are Shem (Near east/Middle East, central and south-east Asia, south, western and east Europe, North and West Africa,), and black-bronze/dark are Ham (near all of Africa, partly near east and middle Asia – also partly of Australian people are Hamites but also are Semites yes tested y/m-dna confirmed this). The actual Americans peoples (Northe, middle, South) are mixed of all them the Indians are mixed of Shem (red bronze-whithe people) and Japhet (yellow-bronze) and also small precent from Ham like other Asiatic.
What do you base your findings on? Do you agree that all human men came from one of the three sons of Noah? The Y-chromosome data shows that we all came from one of the three sons of Noah. Where they went, and who is who now is somewhat up for debate.
I appreciate you sharing your ideas, but we would like to know what they are based on. We stand on our papers.
James
Can you help me know who I’m from? R-FGC924
Yes, I can. You are from Japheth. You can get the details from https://scibi.org/?p=1988
Admin
So according to the male dna phylotrees, R1a descends from R which is believed to be a mutation of K which of which has been placed under Japheth.
According to several researches that have been done, tracing documented genealogies and headstones of R1a members, it leads back to Levi the Levite Israelite son of Patriarch Jacob son of Patriarch Isaac, son of Patriarch Abraham.
All of the genealogies I have seen show’s Patriarch Abraham as being the direct male line descendant of Shem…
So if Shem was the progenitor of Patriarch Abrahams line, and Patriarch Abraham was the progenitor of the Israelites, and Levi was an Israelite with the R haplogroup and descended from K, then ISOGG is wrong on who had K… Shem more than likely had IJK at minimum…
Not to mention he seems to be apparently God’s chosen one of the 3 having Japeth’s family dwelling in the tents of Shem… And Patriarch Abraham coming from Shem… And if I remember correctly, doesn’t God also make a promise to him about all of his descendants with the earth?
And that the 70+ sons of Jacob (Israel) will form the 77 nations of the earth?
I do agree that we all come from Ham, Japeth, and Shem and their 3 wives. I’ve seen the documentation on the 3 nodes of women, also. Very interesting.
However, I feel that God favored Shem more and makes more sense that he would spread his seed more so than any other… and considering that 40 percent of European women carry the H mt-DNA it only makes sense that Shem and his Wife were the larger progenitors and that Shem carried IJK and his wife carried the one leading to R and thus down to H.
Just as the males have one that is lower, so do the females. So I would think the low male goes with the low female…
Another thing just came to mind. When God had the men counted, he fined the non-Levites for having more than Levi…
So I think K belongs to Shem and his wife for sure.
Tracy,
I appreciate you interest in the things of God. However, the only way to know who came from Shem is Y chromosome DNA data. Everything else is speculation. Tracing grave stones has too many potential problems.
Keep up the good work and keep seeking.
James
Thank you! Yes I’m Extremely interested in the biblical context and Genealogy. I wish I had the money to do extensive research! So much I want to know!
Yes YDNA is the only absolute way to prove accurate lineage lines and to find the progenitor…
See my last name is Feist… and since I’m not only German, but I’m a Black Sea German from (Russia/Ukraine) lineage so that’s hard to trace…
Other families I’ve been hitting ruts on are Wards, Rices, William the Conqueror, Cory’s… many of the Pilgrims, haplogroup I… the descendants of Abraham…
But anyways back to my family last name and trying to piece things together…
My brothers have not done any testing to confirm the YDNA of our family, but there are 70 guys that have tested and belong to R1a from Baden, Germany.
I have seen that the Ashkenazi Jews have been tested and R1a is among them for haplogroups… but no further testing had been done as to WHY the different haplogroups among the same “group” tribe/ area however you want to phrase it “elite” of people…
So these people dug a little deeper to find out why. The Ashkenazi Jews of R1a couldn’t tell you past their grandparents… now that sounds familiar! However, the German R1a members could use “paper trails” of genealogy and headstones, of which all traced back to Levi…
Now this raises some more questions for investigation and asked for proof…
So… another group of individuals did more thorough testing.. they found a well established, well known family that has 15 generations of documented lineage and claim descent from Levi… looking good so far! They also attempted to estimate Tmrca as well… it seems Levites produced in less than the 25 year generation average, so the exact R1a sub group p-258 I think it is, is much sooner than anticipated… and yes they did confirm that the progenitor of that specific R1a sub group was a Levite… not just of the Levite tribe. Who it is still remains a question… but has given so many answers so far!
It does make sense on why my family shield is blue like the eastern sky and stands for purity… and how my family helped form the European government socially economically and politically… now I have the bigger piece of finding out my lineage all the way back and the line I come from… I have a few clues, but I would sure like to know what some other people know!
I should also mention that testing had been done on J, and no common ancestor between J and R1a was found through biblical times… and J is way older!
Now to solve I… seems main man so far is Gapt/Geat… founder of Goths, Amalungs, and Danes supposedly… but there again hit a rut on who his dad was… but at least gets us back to time around Christ…
This is really interesting and the grouping data is compelling, but I’m finding it difficult to follow the logic as to how this proves that the three divisions come from 3 sons who had the SAME FATHER who would have had his own Y DNA mutations distinct from his own ancestors that he would have also passed on to each of his three children to be reflected in the many grandchildren and so on.
The methodology you are using to show a common ancestor of each of the three groups is logical. That is a fair conclusion that there are three distinct groups. But if those three separate ancestors have a common father, then this is a problem in the logic. If those three men have a common father, then the data should have produced at least one other SNP that shows up in all of the groups to reflect a common ancestor in Noah, which is the logic you are applying to work your way to the three groupings in the first place (by singling out three distinct markers: rs17306671,rs9786139, and rs3900).
You seem to be arguing that there are no Y DNA haplogroup markers common to all three groups, even though they all came from the same man: Noah as the common father to all of them. Yet somehow, mysteriously, three divisions only show up with Noah’s sons, which then meticulously pass on to all of the sons since that time. This defies all logic, doesn’t it?
Noah would have reflected mutations separate from his father, and so on. Shem, Ham and Japheth were born before the flood, which means that their Y-DNA was already established under pre-flood environmental conditions. I raise this to anticipate the counter point that somehow the mutations only started after the flood. It is difficult to accept that somehow SNP mutations on the Y DNA only showed up in Shem, Ham and Japheth’s Y-chromosome after the flood. If that were the case, then the common SNPs would condense down to groupings that reflected the number of sons of Shem, Ham and Japeth in the aggregate (i.e., dozens), and not those three men themselves.
While the data seems to suggest three separate parental lines through the visual grouping, does it not point in the opposite direction than that those three lines had a common father one generation up from those three? Does it not strongly point to three separate starting points with no common father to those three?
You said you were approaching the data without “bias”. You stated, “We made no assumptions and shelved our preconceived ideas. We wanted to see where the data led us.”
But then you make a conclusion that this data showing three distinct groups all come from sons of the same father. I don’t think an objective observer would conclude that unless you already had a preconceived idea that these three men were the sons of Noah. An objective observer would not have concluded this.
Jim,
We are pleased that you are interested in these things. It takes a while to understand it, so I will do my best to help you.
First, know that a genetic marker is a change in the DNA that shows a difference between individuals or groups.
Consider you, If all other men were wiped out of existence, you would have no markers because there are no others to compare with. You would be the most ancient ancestor and any makers you had before would be of no interest.
Consider Noah. Noah had genetic markers compared to his peers, but when all his peers died in the flood, the markers became meaningless.
Consider Noah and his sons just after his last son was born. Noah and his three sons probably had the exact same DNA. Remember, his sons were born within the span of two years. There could have been markers but probably not. Markers accumulate slowly; if there would be a marker or two it wouldn’t affect anything.
So, Noah and his three sons at that time had identical markers. Later on Noah probably produced more genetic markers, but they don’t matter. But the sons started developing markers the 100 years before they had children. These are the markers I traced. So, if you remove all the son’s markers, you will get Noah’s Y chromosome when the sons were born.
I hope this helps.
Keep up the good work and keep thinking.
James
Thanks for the response. I think I understand what you are saying, and that helps in the explanation. Perhaps I’m still finding difficulty in trying to understand how this compares to all of the modern subclades that are in existence. In this original article, the sample size is pretty small, and when I try to look at the various SNPs and their subclades as to the three-part grouping, I only see a few being represented. The CDE group is being represented in the various ones you are labeling Ham. The ones you are labeling Japheth are mostly K and the ones you are labeling Shem are IJ. There is no indication of any of the representative subclades of G or H or A or B, etc., which do exist in modern people. So, I don’t know what that means.
I know that in a follow up article you stated that you had expanded the sample size, and you felt the results were the same, but the visual support you added didn’t show the groupings and SNPs like the first article for a reader to be able to see how this grouping related to the various modern subclades.
I’m not trying to defend any kind of modern phylogenetic assumptions that the geneticists make, or their their Out-of-Africa hypothesis based on evolution. I don’t agree with their assumptions. I’m just trying to understand whether this three-part grouping actually works in ALL cases of modern peoples if your sample size were to include representatives of all known modern subclades.
If this grouping manifests in literally every single case, covering all modern subclades with a sufficient sample size, then that is pretty impressive and compelling.
Note: finally, assuming the underlying thesis is correct that this three-part division always applies to all modern peoples, I would still question your labels of Japheth and Shem. I would suggest that, for many reasons regarding the historical evidence we have of the migrations of ancient Israel before, during and after the Exodus and the Assyrian/Babylonian captivities as well as the promises made to Shemitic people, you likely have them switched by mistake. The Scriptures are replete with these promises only to Shemitic peoples. The promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob were that their descendants would become like the stars of the sky and the sand of the sea. It is the K group that you have labeled as Japheth that is overwhelmingly the dominant group across the entire earth today and which seems to have clearly spread out from its ancient near eastern origins, and the IJ group is relatively small by comparison to K as to modern representation. If your label were right, then Yahweh’s promises never came to pass and Japheth was the most dominant and covers the whole earth, while Shem’s ancestors are a small group on the earth. That alone is sufficient reason to question your label. Is it possible that hereyou are getting tripped up by the modern geneticist/historian definition of “semitic”, by which they are almost certainly wrong. Anyway, that is another story.
We have no question about Shem and Ham. Norther Russia gives it away. Also, as stated before, the database did not do a good job of representing Shem.
Yes G, H, A, and B are clearly Ham.
Shem has only I and J, but it would be easy to Assign many more major haplogroups to them. Remember these groups were assigned by mainstream geneticists.
We are confident that the three group concept works. We published an assignment of one marker each to Shem, Ham, and Japheth, but there are several more back-up markers that we have not published. It is like God wants to make sure that the three Y chromosome groups are locked in and cannot be shaken.
We are confident in the Shem Japheth identification for many reason.
Keep seeking,
Jim
I’ve been looking for this page, hoping against hope it existed. This is fascinating.
I have a question. How do you trace back a person of mixed race? Would they not have traces back to two or three of Noah’s sons?
Robert,
Any male human can trace their Y chromosome to only one of the three. That is the way Y chromosome markers work.
A person of mixed race gets the mixing from the mother. It’s the same as now. If a white person marries a person of color, the child will be mixed.
Admin
Can we trace back from Noah to Adam? Does the trail end cold when you funnel down to the one man (Noah)? With the giant skeletons that might be dead “watchers” or dead “nephilim” has anyone looked at their DNA to learn anything about them?
Thanks
We will be able to trace from Noah to Adam when we get several Neanderthal (pre-flood man) Y chromosome sequences. So far we have very little Neanderthal Y chromosome data and cannot trace from Noah to Adam. We, at Genesis and Genetics, are anxiously awaiting these sequences. We will publish the results as soon as we get them. You can subscribe and get them when available.
Admin
I’m very happy to have found that site. I try to compilate datas of
-ancient historians (antiquity)
-old chronicles (fathers of Church, middle ages)
-old historians (before rationalism)
-datas on haplogroups
-myths of countries (Chinese, vietnamese, coreans, mesoamericans, etc)
-euhemerist theory (try to know how societies came from true God to paganism, and which real patriarch fit with which god
-linguistic evolution and chronology.
Of course, I use the septuagint chronology, the only one which fit with east-asian, mesoamerican, egyptian datas. Proofs are overwhelming in favor of the LXX, compare to the scripture manipulated by the murderers of God (aka the pharisians, the rabbis and their tendency to give priority to oral traditions (talmud) over scriptures (thorah)).
I have to admit, I feel quite scared, facing that gigantic amount of datas to put in right order, as if I was starting a puzzle of 1 millions pieces. But that’s very enthusiastic.
I see the world differently, now than I have found faith. I see its beauty. And I understand what caused our civilisational decay (obvious, now, since 4 years).
I immediately believed on the recent Adam theory (7550 years ago) but I was in the same time strongly in favor of old earth. But today, I read about the apparition of death AFTER Eve’s fault. That is a very strong argument in favor of a 7550 years old earth.
Still, I don’t understand why God would wait 23h59m59s between two creations. (because it’s obvious than, by exemple, land animals were created in an instant, infinitely less than a second).
Maybe a question of time relativity, but that’s not my domain. I’m quite good at History, but science, physics…I even can’t understand the arguments. I don’t have the “vocabulary” neither the code (please, forgive that very unclear phrase. I’m not english-born speaker, secondly, and it’s very difficult to explain that story of vocabulary and evidences… Let’s say than, for me, physics is like reading chinese.)
PS : I regreat than each good site about biblical history is isolated from the others, and don’t link “companion” sites.
Dear Antoine,
We, at Genesis and Genetics don’t believe in two creations. We believe the first six days were the creation and the next day after God’s “rest,” was the activation (Chapter 2).
Also, we believe the Masoretic text and not the LXX. Here is the reason. If the LXX were correct, Abraham and Sarah would not be surprised at having a baby that late in life. According to the LXX, 90 or 100 years would be young.
Keep up the good work!
James
Genesis and Genetics
There are males from Fiji who do not possess any of the three genetic markers that you mention.
Would you please supply me with the accession numbers for the males from Fiji. I will check it out.
Admin
How am I able to find out my connection? I have downloaded my Y report from YFull, but don’t come up with any of the 3 markers mentioned above when i search. My haplogroup is E-Y83424.
Thanks for any help you can offer.
TS,
According to our analysis, if you have the rs17306671 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide A you are from Shem. If you have the rs9786139 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide A you are from Ham. If you have the rs3900 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide G you are from Japheth. The Y-chromosome data you have must have these mutations in order for you to find your roots.
Haplogroup E comes from rs9786139 Y-chromosome mutation nucleotide A. So you are from Ham.
There is a myth that Ham was cursed by Noah. It is not true; read your Bible and see.
James
Admin